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Post by Bingo on Mar 6, 2007 15:39:02 GMT -8
My only real point of difference with the posts by Scout and Pep. is that I'm wary of any suggestion that the "Country Music Industry" or the "Country Music Establishment" can define what is meant by Country Music or the "Country Music Scene". My first objection to going down that route is a moral one - it is, to my way of thinking, wrong to allow any group of organized vested interests to define a genre - it is wrong because it denies the artists and the fans the freedom to define their own musical baselines. The corporate "suits" want us to think that Bon Jovi and Rascall Flatts were artists at the core of last year's commercial Country Music - probably for the overwhelming reason that they make the genre appear "friendly" to fans used to pop music, and sell millions of records. T That's fine - and I don't want to deny anyone the pleasure of hearing them. What I do object to is the implication that you're only "Country" if you get the current approval of these vested interests. My second objection is a practical one - it's simply untrue to argue that the "Establishment" have any kind of monopoly of the "Country scene". It's easy to demonstrate that: ---take labels: are Rounder, Sugar Hill, Bear Family, Yep Rock, Nettwerk and Bloodshot usually considered part of the "Establishment"? They produce hundreds of Country records each year - and they don't begin to cover the smaller labels and self-releases. ---take radio: we have our own radio stations - usually called Alternative, Roots or Americana. You may not have one in your own area, but they're easy to find on the Internet. And they broadcast authentic and wide-ranging Country music (in all it's forms) ---take artists: it's not just a few older artists or well-known names who are not played on commercial Pop-Country radio - it's the vast majority of Country Music performers. In any week there are - literally - hundreds of Country Music bands and performers who are played on Roots Country stations who never feature at all on the commercial Pop-Country playlists. And, of course, many of them are also prolific live performers at festivals and in clubs and bars. ---take genres. We know that Old Time Mountain Music, Bluegrass, Western music, Rockabilly, Jam-Grass, Insurgent Hillbilly, Texas Music, Alt.Country and Americana singer/songwriters are not usually heard on the Pop Country stations - but it would be fiercely resisted if anyone was to suggest that because of that they're not part of the "Country Scene". (Many of us would argue thay are in fact more Country - but, I concede, that's unprovable - so let's just argue that they have at least as much right to the label as their more commercial cousins.) So what I'm arguing there is that Roots Country fans are never going to sit back and let Top 40 Commercial radio and award shows dictate what "Country Music" is! (As you may have guessed, though - my objection to the post that I was first replying to - and others in the same vein - was rather different. That was focused on the bigoted claim that the Pop genres are inherantly "superior" or "more progressive" than the County genres (with the implication that playing Country Music restricts you in some way) - and that any move away from Country into Pop is not a move sidweways, but a move forwards. I shall always reply to that prejudice - however often I have to do it.)
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evets
Adult Chick
Zen and The Art of Dixie Chicks Maintenance
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Post by evets on Mar 6, 2007 16:16:25 GMT -8
TTLW isn't a Country Album. It is a mainstream modern contemporary album.
Emily doesn't even need to play banjo on the next album. She's an accomplished guitarist. Marties an accomplished violinist. If you want to call her a fiddler fine.
The fact remains as of now they don't owe Nashville anything.
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Post by singerc1 on Mar 6, 2007 16:43:32 GMT -8
country music like basically every other genre is starting to go down the tubes imo.
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Post by Bingo on Mar 6, 2007 17:22:17 GMT -8
We disagree again, Steve. As I said, you're entitled to your opinion - but you must always expect to get replies! There have in fact been many reviews that considered it a Country album - that's their opinion, and it's up to the readers to decide whether to agree with them, or with you. But the reason I feel it's necessary to reply specifically to your posts in this vein is that you display a continual cultural bias against Country Music. For you it's on the wrong side of some imagined cultural divide - and to fit your ideological obsession, for you it seems important to exaggerate that divide and draw the demarcation lines artificially sharply. You persist in defining Country music narrowly - so as to force it to fit your own preconceived stereotypes. In fact the mainstream Country Music that you continually attack is far closer to the "mainstream modern contemporary" music you claim to prefer than it is to the freer, more Roots-based Country Music that the Chicks play. You also persist in your biased implication that the genres you prefer are inherantly superior to the Country genres. In your last post, this is blaringly obvious in your assertion that Emily doesn't "need" to play a banjo, because she could take up a guitar instead! The flaw in this scenario is that Emily's never likely to ask you what she "needs" to be doing. And they never "owed" Nashville - they were making that clear long before TTLW
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Post by Tony on Mar 6, 2007 17:25:03 GMT -8
I doubt they're even thinking about a new project, and they probably won't for some time yet. When the time comes , the feel to the next album will only come when they write and record the songs. Every album they've done has a different sound and feel, so the next one will also be different. This is one of reasons why I love this band so much.
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ker8
Adult Chick
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Post by ker8 on Mar 6, 2007 17:37:23 GMT -8
TTLW isn't a Country Album. It is a mainstream modern contemporary album. Emily doesn't even need to play banjo on the next album. She's an accomplished guitarist. Marties an accomplished violinist. If you want to call her a fiddler fine. The fact remains as of now they don't owe Nashville anything. Personally, I think I might stop listening if they gave up their unique instruments and all just played guitar. I think that would start to sound very old very quickly. I'd like to hear all of their musical abilities featured on the next album, personally. Even the accordian, lol.
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scout
Adult Chick
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Post by scout on Mar 6, 2007 18:11:41 GMT -8
I definitely would not want them to stop playing ANY of their instruments. The banjo and fiddle can add so much to a song. And it's the Chicks' sound. I don't think the Chicks need to adapt their sound for the AC and mainstream listeners. I think those listeners will adapt themselves to the Chicks' style. I think alot of people have already started to.
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Post by peppermintpatti on Mar 6, 2007 18:28:07 GMT -8
My only real point of difference with the posts by Scout and Pep. is that I'm wary of any suggestion that the "Country Music Industry" or the "Country Music Establishment" can define what is meant by Country Music or the "Country Music Scene". My first objection to going down that route is a moral one - it is, to my way of thinking, wrong to allow any group of organized vested interests to define a genre - it is wrong because it denies the artists and the fans the freedom to define their own musical baselines. The corporate "suits" want us to think that Bon Jovi and Rascall Flatts were artists at the core of last year's commercial Country Music - probably for the overwhelming reason that they make the genre appear "friendly" to fans used to pop music, and sell millions of records. T That's fine - and I don't want to deny anyone the pleasure of hearing them. What I do object to is the implication that you're only "Country" if you get the current approval of these vested interests. My second objection is a practical one - it's simply untrue to argue that the "Establishment" have any kind of monopoly of the "Country scene". It's easy to demonstrate that: ---take labels: are Rounder, Sugar Hill, Bear Family, Yep Rock, Nettwerk and Bloodshot usually considered part of the "Establishment"? They produce hundreds of Country records each year - and they don't begin to cover the smaller labels and self-releases. ---take radio: we have our own radio stations - usually called Alternative, Roots or Americana. You may not have one in your own area, but they're easy to find on the Internet. And they broadcast authentic and wide-ranging Country music (in all it's forms) ---take artists: it's not just a few older artists or well-known names who are not played on commercial Pop-Country radio - it's the vast majority of Country Music performers. In any week there are - literally - hundreds of Country Music bands and performers who are played on Roots Country stations who never feature at all on the commercial Pop-Country playlists. And, of course, many of them are also prolific live performers at festivals and in clubs and bars. ---take genres. We know that Old Time Mountain Music, Bluegrass, Western music, Rockabilly, Jam-Grass, Insurgent Hillbilly, Texas Music, Alt.Country and Americana singer/songwriters are not usually heard on the Pop Country stations - but it would be fiercely resisted if anyone was to suggest that because of that they're not part of the "Country Scene". (Many of us would argue thay are in fact more Country - but, I concede, that's unprovable - so let's just argue that they have at least as much right to the label as their more commercial cousins.) So what I'm arguing there is that Roots Country fans are never going to sit back and let Top 40 Commercial radio and award shows dictate what "Country Music" is! (As you may have guessed, though - my objection to the post that I was first replying to - and others in the same vein - was rather different. That was focused on the bigoted claim that the Pop genres are inherantly "superior" or "more progressive" than the County genres (with the implication that playing Country Music restricts you in some way) - and that any move away from Country into Pop is not a move sidweways, but a move forwards. I shall always reply to that prejudice - however often I have to do it.) I only meant that they aren't going back to the people that wronged them. I wasn't saying the suits determine what country music is I was simply referring to the people that screwed them over and tried to end their careers. I know there is a lot of great and interesting country music out there.
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Post by natkins on Mar 6, 2007 18:30:29 GMT -8
I concur. The banjo and fiddle MUST exist in the Chicks' music forever. It will cease to be "Dixie Chicks" music if those instruments are ever abandoned. I won't stand for it. Banjo and fiddle forever!!
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Post by drizzletown on Mar 6, 2007 18:41:59 GMT -8
Well, Neil Young plays banjo and Kansas had the fiddle as a staple instrument. I think they can survive in the rock world with their Acoustic instruments......if they want to electrify them, that would be fine with me too.
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Post by Bingo on Mar 6, 2007 19:36:57 GMT -8
Neil Young provides a good example of the way some people can be led by cultural bias into forcing their musical perception into a preconceived channel.
Much of Young's album "Harvest" is good Country Music - yet some would bridle at calling him a Country Singer. Also, why should "After the Gold Rush" be "Country" when sung by Dolly Parton and "Rock" (or maybe something else) when sung by Young himself?
We get the same phenomenon with Bob Dylan - who's actually done much more Country than Neil Young. Many would insist on calling Dylan a Rock musician - even when he's not performing Rock.
Obviously, one can't apply the point to everyone - but I'm convinced that for at least a significant number of people, it does come down to an inherant cultural bias. "Rock" is seen as the "good", "progressive", and "politically correct" description - so any artist or song they approve of has to be considered "Rock". By contrast "Country" is seen as being irredemably on the wrong side of the fence - artists who leave it are by definition making themselves more acceptable, and artists from the Rock side who add elements from it to their repertoire are simply playing a more eclectic form of Rock - it would never do to demean them by actually calling them Country!
I'm used to hearing a big variety of styles within Country Music (as I'm sure many of you are too). I'm certainly never going to abandon the term "Country" to the Top 40 mainstream - and I'm never going to be ashamed of calling some of the most innovative and wide-reaching performers around today authentic Country Musicians.
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ker8
Adult Chick
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Post by ker8 on Mar 7, 2007 7:11:58 GMT -8
Neil Young provides a good example of the way some people can be led by cultural bias into forcing their musical perception into a preconceived channel. Much of Young's album "Harvest" is good Country Music - yet some would bridle at calling him a Country Singer. Also, why should "After the Gold Rush" be "Country" when sung by Dolly Parton and "Rock" (or maybe something else) when sung by Young himself? We get the same phenomenon with Bob Dylan - who's actually done much more Country than Neil Young. Many would insist on calling Dylan a Rock musician - even when he's not performing Rock. Obviously, one can't apply the point to everyone - but I'm convinced that for at least a significant number of people, it does come down to an inherant cultural bias. "Rock" is seen as the "good", "progressive", and "politically correct" description - so any artist or song they approve of has to be considered "Rock". By contrast "Country" is seen as being irredemably on the wrong side of the fence - artists who leave it are by definition making themselves more acceptable, and artists from the Rock side who add elements from it to their repertoire are simply playing a more eclectic form of Rock - it would never do to demean them by actually calling them Country! I'm used to hearing a big variety of styles within Country Music (as I'm sure many of you are too). I'm certainly never going to abandon the term "Country" to the Top 40 mainstream - and I'm never going to be ashamed of calling some of the most innovative and wide-reaching performers around today authentic Country Musicians. I haven't heard "Gold Rush", at least I'm pretty sure I haven't, but if they're different sounding enough one can definitely be country and the other not. For example, "Hurt". When sung by Nine Inch Nails, it doesn't sound country in the least to me, but it does when sung by Johnny Cash.
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evets
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Post by evets on Mar 7, 2007 7:33:21 GMT -8
"What's the difference between a violin and a fiddle?", "No one cries when they spill beer on a fiddle."
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Post by thinwhitechick on Mar 7, 2007 7:54:36 GMT -8
When you’re playing in Opera Houses it’s a violin. When you’re playing in barns it’s a fiddle.
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scout
Adult Chick
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Post by scout on Mar 7, 2007 8:15:35 GMT -8
I don't consider Neil Young's "Gold Rush" album as country. I think the country, pop, rock labels can be very subjective. Some music definitely fits into a specific genre and others are subjective. TTLW is a perfect example. Some people consider it country and others do not.
In SUAS Martie says that the Chicks have differing opinions on whether this album is country or not. Ditto for the reviewers. I have read reviews that claim the album is more of an L.A. pop-rock sound (or something like that). I think alot of the time it's all in the eye of the beholder (or ear of the listener, as it were).
I think we could debate this issue until the cows come home and never reach a consensus. Music is subjective. As drizzeltown notes above, Kansas plays a fiddle on some songs. But I would definitely not consider Kansas country.
I actually think it's a great thing when an artist isn't defined by one label. That way everyone can enjoy the Chicks,and claim they are in the genre that each listener prefers. Everyone's happy.
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evets
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Post by evets on Mar 7, 2007 8:19:59 GMT -8
I think the banjo was blended into the albums tracks-songs perfectly. It enhanced the overall sound without it being a case of to much banjo out front. This is what great mixes are about. Everything enhances the whole and makes it larger then life. Martie's work did not strike me as fiddling on this album. I heard a serious accomplished violinist playing seamless parts with a taste of all styles and techniques that fit perfectly into the compositions.
Maybe I should design a custom built banjo prototype for Emily that looks like a Fender Strat or Gibson SG but sounds better and plays better then a traditional banjo. Hmmmmmmmm, I think the mother of invention is calling me to duty.
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ker8
Adult Chick
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Post by ker8 on Mar 7, 2007 8:41:54 GMT -8
From, wkrn.com/nashville/news/sheryl-crow-joins-jack-ingram-at-exitin/81637.htm"While the Dixie Chicks made nice with Grammy voters getting five trophies last month, the ACM shut them out. ACM voters did include the Chicks in the first two rounds of nominations, but they didn't make the final cut. " Personally, I think the reason they didn't make the final cut is because of the "ha-ha" remark at the Grammy's. If they made the first two cuts, but not the last one, I think the reason they didn't has to be a due to a recent event, ie, the Grammy's, and Natalie's speech when they won Country Album of the Year. I don't agree that just because of that they should be shut out of nominations, but it doesn't surprise me in the least.
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Post by vidaurri on Mar 7, 2007 9:26:58 GMT -8
forget about it. no matter what the chicks do, country establishment won't let them in. grudge match....chicks are above that cornpone, nuthin special music..they have moved on artistically but those dependent on nashville suits have not. gg
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Post by botodd on Mar 7, 2007 11:22:00 GMT -8
I feel the Chick's music and now complete songwriting is always evolving. That is what makes them so great. How many singers and bands sound sounds just like their last album and one before that and one before that. They stay safe and no growth. The Chicks take risks and has allowed their music to be completely different than any other I know. Many rock bands have violin (fiddle) so Martie can play her polished violin expertise or get down with the fiddle. Which either will fit the song they are working on. I do not believe Emily will ever put away the Banjo or Dobro or Lapsteel down. She can play whichever one she wants depending on song they are working on. I would love to see what she could do (ON OCCASION) with Electric Guitar and playing Lead instead of Rythym (spelling?). I bet she could bend those notes and rock out depending on song they are working on. Natalie is such an amazing vocalist she can make a tear come to my eye on a ballad, hear no twang on rock sound, and get down southern style like Sin Wagon and White Trash Wedding, ect. That's their beauty in that they make us all happy and more proud to be fans with each evolving sound. I believe that is truly why the Chicks win so many Grammies because they are being rewarded for wonderful music, extrodinary vocals and harmonies and how each album from WOS to TTLW has shown such growth and their ability to connect with all of us. When so many people can't wait until their next Album that tells the world how great the Chicks are and they have never disappointed me as they have grown. I can't wait to hear their next Album. I could care less about ACM's...the Grammies have their finger on the pulse of all music.
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evets
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Post by evets on Mar 7, 2007 11:35:03 GMT -8
And it's their amazing chemistry and transcendental quality as well.
And how many bands can you go see live and hear country, bluegrass, scorching rock, mystical (Lullaby), celtic, soul, motown, and all these other styles fit seamlessly into a flawlessly performed show and with their own style and interpretation?
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Post by keitharoo on Mar 7, 2007 12:17:13 GMT -8
I would like to say this about the ACM awards. I am glad the Chicks are not included in that phoney award show. I also wish the Chicks would tell CMT to drop the message board from the CMT site. After all it was CMT/GAC and the Country industry that chose to treat the Chicks like they were sub-human. If the sites hate them so bad, get rid of the boards. That said, I think the sites like having the board because it brings more fans to the site. Hypocrits. Why can't they be honest like the Nat and speak the truth.
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scout
Adult Chick
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Post by scout on Mar 7, 2007 13:22:58 GMT -8
I feel the Chick's music and now complete songwriting is always evolving. That is what makes them so great. How many singers and bands sound sounds just like their last album and one before that and one before that. They stay safe and no growth. The Chicks take risks and has allowed their music to be completely different than any other I know. Many rock bands have violin (fiddle) so Martie can play her polished violin expertise or get down with the fiddle. Which either will fit the song they are working on. I do not believe Emily will ever put away the Banjo or Dobro or Lapsteel down. She can play whichever one she wants depending on song they are working on. I would love to see what she could do (ON OCCASION) with Electric Guitar and playing Lead instead of Rythym (spelling?). I bet she could bend those notes and rock out depending on song they are working on. Natalie is such an amazing vocalist she can make a tear come to my eye on a ballad, hear no twang on rock sound, and get down southern style like Sin Wagon and White Trash Wedding, ect. That's their beauty in that they make us all happy and more proud to be fans with each evolving sound. I believe that is truly why the Chicks win so many Grammies because they are being rewarded for wonderful music, extrodinary vocals and harmonies and how each album from WOS to TTLW has shown such growth and their ability to connect with all of us. When so many people can't wait until their next Album that tells the world how great the Chicks are and they have never disappointed me as they have grown. I can't wait to hear their next Album. I could care less about ACM's...the Grammies have their finger on the pulse of all music. Great post, Botodd.
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Post by peacenik on Mar 7, 2007 15:00:54 GMT -8
when you win and take home "the Gold Medal" . . . the plastic ones don't seem anywhere near as impressive . . . The Dixie Chicks took home five "Olympic-Equal Gold" awards at the Grammys . . . the "puddle jumper plastic" awards that have "shut them out" of the competition (which the DCX would have trounced) can go home and pretend that they are happy that they only had to compete against lesser competition . . .
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Post by faninuk on Mar 7, 2007 15:22:16 GMT -8
If i was living in Vegas or somewhere near i would go to the arena and would scream through the entire show - "we want Chicks" - till they throw me out.
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Post by keitharoo on Mar 7, 2007 20:30:41 GMT -8
Are my CMT board friends here?? This is My love keith urban here. I like it here better.
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