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Post by oregonchickfan on Aug 25, 2020 23:34:53 GMT -8
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Post by nedcfan on Sept 1, 2020 19:20:26 GMT -8
I tried to listen to Fiona's album and it was okay. I do like her though but she doesn't have the clout that The Chicks do. No idea about Taylor and Gaga's albums either. I think the fact that this is their first album since their last Grammy AOTY win might be a good thing for them. Regardless it is my AOTY and seriously that is all that matters
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Post by Bingo on Sept 6, 2020 17:24:45 GMT -8
I certainly wish them well - and after all that's happened in the last seventeen years, it would be great for them and their fans to see a come-back crowned with success. But on a purely personal level, I have to say that I'd have a hard time finding exactly what would make "Gaslighter" my choice for album of the year-in a field that includes, for example, the Highwomen (where the music is much more on my wavelength, and I so love Brandi and Natalie's work, and still can't resist grinning when I think of Amanda on the CMA red carpet wearing a shirt that said "mama wants to change that Nashville Sound"), up against an album, that, in all honesty, leaves me this time with little more than a shrug...
Anyway, tastes are always going to vary, and I respect that. It's an interesting, and pretty diverse, group that they consider likely contenders at this early stage in the proceedings - and I do think that the combination of the notability, the persisting air of controversy, and the lengthy hiatus will help the Chicks gain support and a definite chance of winning. I don't think award shows are ever all about the albums alone - but if they do win, I hope it will be more because of what voters actually hear in the music itself, rather than them giving too much weight to those more extraneous factors.
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Post by erik on Sept 7, 2020 5:53:29 GMT -8
Quote by Bingo re. Gaslighter as possible Album of the Year nominee at the 2021 Grammys:
I think it could be a combination of both, actually.
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Post by Bingo on Sept 7, 2020 8:25:08 GMT -8
Quote by Bingo re. Gaslighter as possible Album of the Year nominee at the 2021 Grammys: I think it could be a combination of both, actually. Probably. (I don't listen to a lot from the sector they appear to have mainly focused this album's prevailing style on - so I don't feel well qualified to assess or compare the technical merits of its music.) Stylistically, it's a big stretch for me, but I certainly won't let any personal disappointment get in the way of wishing them success with it.
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Post by erik on Sept 7, 2020 15:13:26 GMT -8
I don't think the underlying implications of the album's release are particularly avoidable. I thought that producer Jack Antanoff put a little bit too much electronic production into the mix, but it wasn't enough to stop me from giving it an enthusiastic review over at Amazon.
And it was one of the few albums during this period of the pandemic that people really knew was out there because of how heavily it was being promoted (Taylor Swift's Folklore being another). I wouldn't at all be surprised if Gaslighter is one of those in the running. It's just a question of how they dole out the awards if they have a Grammy show and nobody can show up.....
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Post by sthdvs2012 on Sept 9, 2020 21:20:44 GMT -8
I’ve seen a lot of people mention The Highwomen album, as Bingo did, but I listened to it start to finish and it just sounded like a lot of yelling to me lol. Also, it just came across as trying too hard to force a specific sound. But that’s just my personal opinion. I don’t think their voices go well together.
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Post by DCXMMXVI on Dec 9, 2020 15:56:52 GMT -8
I haven't been excited about awards shows for a long time. It's a shame, really, cause I used to look forward to almost all of them. I realized I lost interest when my favorite actor, Sam Rockwell, won an Oscar and I didn't give a damn whatsoever. But this...this is kind of a shocker. Not a single Grammy nomination? That was the only chance I would have watched. Oh well...
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Post by sthdvs2012 on Dec 9, 2020 23:36:56 GMT -8
I think Gaslighter is their worst album and it’s basically “Chicks Lite.” It’s just not what people expected out of them. Less harmony, less instrumentals from Martie and Emily. I don’t know. They seem proud of it, but if this is the road they continue down, the next album will sell just as poorly as this one, I’m afraid.
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Post by erik on Dec 11, 2020 21:17:43 GMT -8
I guess I'm not someone who thought that Gaslighter was a bad album. Is it their greatest? Probably not. Again, I thought Jack Antanoff's production got in the way in some places. It is a lesser album in their discography. But was a lot of the music released in 2020 much better?? Judging by what was being hyped, especially in the mainstream country sector, I'd have to say No.
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Post by sthdvs2012 on Dec 12, 2020 17:26:56 GMT -8
My main frustration with the album is that with every song, I imagine what it could have been had jack antonoff not changed their formula that has worked so well for them and made them stars. To me, the album as B a whole is just a shell of what it could have been and that is kind of a letdown.
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Post by Bingo on Dec 19, 2020 13:29:11 GMT -8
As the Highwomen have been mentioned in this thread, I'll just point out that they were the big winners at the recent AMAs, taking Album of the Year, Duo/Group of the Year, and Song of the Year. That would seem to be their natural stamping ground - where Brandi is arguably the reigning queen (and where Amanda is still probably earning extra kudos for her 'mama wants to change that Nashville Sound' protest at the CMAs. I would guess that if the Highwomen are to score at the Grammys as well, its most likely to be in the American Roots field.
By contrast, I don't see Gaslighter really having much to offer the AMA (despite their earlier welcoming of the Court Yard Hounds, and their being very open to a different sort of Chicks album). But by apparently putting most of their eggs in a more Pop influenced basket, it may well increase their chances at the Grammys. As I said, I don't feel I listen to enough of the music by their likely main all genre contenders to usefully weigh up their prospects, but I wish them luck.
As for the album itself, I'm afraid I can't say it's grown on me. It's emotionally strong and lyrically interesting - but musically I find it very disappointing. I don't begrudge any artist the chance to follow their muse, and, if they so wish, to radically reinvent the style they are emphasizing - but, when that happens (as with, for example, Emmylou's 'Wrecking Ball' or Loretta's "Van Lear Rose"), I think it can be important to retain enough references to your roots to take at least a substantial part of your existing fan base with you. My fear is that, this time, the Chicks may not have really done that. I may, of course be wrong, but the lukewarm response (or discreet silence) that I've seen from some fans do raise concerns in that department.
I'm not enthusiastic about Jack Antonoff's production - but I don't think he should take the blame alone. All three Chicks took a co-production role, which means they all put their names to the musical style and ethos that prevails in the finished result. Obviously, none of us can read their minds, and opinions are probably presumptious. But for what little it's worth, my guess would be that the closeness of Natalie's divorce and the raw emotion it engendered led Martie and Emily to largely give her her way in the type of album and musical direction she wanted (something they perhaps had been less willing to do before), while taking as their part more opportunity to include banjo and fiddle passages. As those passages seem to me to be tacked on, with little integration into the organic feel of what I read as basically an adult Pop album, the mixture has proven relatively disappointing. Others, of course, will disagree - and that is the very nature of musical interpretation.
As straws in the wind, I had a quick look on Amazon UK, to see the sales chart position here, in Christmas week. Digital music looked only modest at best - 257th in Country and 3,123rd all genre.. But physical CDs (more likely to be given as presents?) fared better - 8th in Country Rock (where they were ahead of Jason Isbell, and only just behind Sturgill Simpson), 22nd in Country overall, and 353rd in Pop
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Post by erik on Dec 19, 2020 16:49:57 GMT -8
Quote by Bingo:
Yes, it's impossible to know what the dynamic is between the three of them. I do seem to remember that there was a certain amount of ambivalence among DCX fans, though not the level displayed for this album, for Taking The Long Way as well, because the trio went in a sort of 1970s California country-rock direction there, and didn't continue with the straight-ahead bluegrass of Home. But then that was 2006, and only three years removed from The Incident At Shepherd's Bush; and they didn't feel the need to kowtow so much to anyone's expectations overall, and Nashville's especially. In any case, Taking The Long Way always struck me as their Texas-meets-California album.
As for Gaslighter, I have listened to it six different times; and I stand by my opinion that, while it could have done with a bit less and still be a sizeable success, compared to a lot of what's out there (The Highwomen, and Margo Price, being prime exceptions), it's a hell of a lot better than most of what got released in 2020.
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Post by sthdvs2012 on Dec 22, 2020 20:30:19 GMT -8
I bet they all assumed it would rack up Grammy nominations and the album was completely shut out from all categories. All 4 of their previous albums won Best Country Album. Gaslighter failed to be nominated. It’s a lesser version of themselves, in my opinion and even Grammy voters recognized that. Can’t say I’m surprised and I can’t say I’m upset about it. I would have a different opinion if I truly believed they deserved it.
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Post by Bingo on Dec 27, 2020 18:44:33 GMT -8
I bet they all assumed it would rack up Grammy nominations and the album was completely shut out from all categories. All 4 of their previous albums won Best Country Album. Gaslighter failed to be nominated. It’s a lesser version of themselves, in my opinion and even Grammy voters recognized that. Can’t say I’m surprised and I can’t say I’m upset about it. I would have a different opinion if I truly believed they deserved it. I doubt if they had Country Album in mind this time - although the Mainstream is often very Pop-influenced, it would still be a big stretch (in my opinion) for this to be considered a Mainstream Country album. And as for the various Alt Country sub genres - as I've said before, I don't think the production showed enough integration of roots elements to fit in there - and I don't think it was even submitted to the American Roots field. I think they wanted to pointedly sever links with the former, and may have seen the latter as not prominent enough, in either audience size or commercial potential, to base a high profile return from hiatus on. As far as I know, Jack Antonoff has no track record in Country or Roots production - and I think choosing him probably signaled a wish for a clear identification with a Pop or AC direction for the album. I suspect that the choice was also influenced by the empathy they've shown for Taylor Swift. She did, very successfully, transition from Nashville Country to Pop, helped by his production, and they may have hoped to do the same with this album. But Swift is considerably younger (and I do think that that is a significant factor, when they would be combating the dual handicap of a long hiatus, and a longer and stronger identification with the Country sector - often a turn-off for some Pop fans). More importantly, I feel, Swift is noted for cultivating and maintaining close links with her very large fan base (something I'm afraid the Chicks have really failed to do enough of, over the years). Although we can't read their minds - and artists often say they have no clear expectations about how their work will be received when they change direction - I'm inclined to agree with you, that they probably were hoping for a stronger reception for Gaslighter in the General Music field (and perhaps in sales, which don't seem to be all that spectacular, after the initial interest in the launch week). But if they were disappointed, I think we can speculate on two possible outcomes - one is that they make another album in the not too distant future - but this time consider putting more emphasis on the musical elements that they've been known and loved for (and in that, I'm not suggesting a fossilized rehash of the past - but rather progression and innovation, by all means, but combined with more open expression of their roots - something I believe they have done in other work, more noticeably than they have on Gaslighter) The other possible reaction, though, could be treating this album as a one-off, rather than the start of a sustained comeback, and more or less returning to hiatus, at least as far as albums are concerned. I sincerely hope that will not be the case, but only time will tell.
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Post by erik on Dec 28, 2020 7:06:28 GMT -8
Quote by Bingo:
If it is the first possibility (and I think many hope that it is), then, as I've said before, it would be intriguing to see them do some more of what they did on Taking The Long Way. I don't think they can go back to what they did on Home, or Fly, or Wide Open Spaces, but they could expand on what they did in 2006 (IMHO).
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Post by Bingo on Dec 28, 2020 9:36:21 GMT -8
Quote by Bingo: If it is the first possibility (and I think many hope that it is), then, as I've said before, it would be intriguing to see them do some more of what they did on Taking The Long Way. I don't think they can go back to what they did on Home, or Fly, or Wide Open Spaces, but they could expand on what they did in 2006 (IMHO). One of the delicious ironies of the Chicks' three "Nashville period" albums (when they were still closely identified with Mainstream Country radio, charts and award shows) was that they were fundamentally broader in scope than the contemporary Mainstream otherwise allowed. WOS (the song they became most associated with) was written by a Texas independent singer/songwriter, Susan Gibson. Other songs on that album came from Radney Foster, Tom Jans, Billy Crain, John David Souther, Maria McKee, Bonnie Raitt - writers with arguably a better understanding of Progressive Roots music than much of the Mainstream which was otherwise largely ignoring them. Fly revived several strands of traditional Country Music, which had largely been pushed out by blander radio staple fare, and finished triumphantly with songs from Americana heroes Jim Lauderdale (who, again with some irony, had once helped advise them for a major record deal), Buddy Miller, Darrell Scott and Patty Griffin Home was a fundamentally anti-Nashville song, in title, location (Willie Nelson's Texas studio), instrumentation, and some of the songs and writers it featured. All this time, they were gaining Mainstream success with what, I believe, could always be identified as strong elements of an Alt Country attitude. Whatever else 2003 did to them personally, in that respect, I don't think 2003 changed them musically. Most of What they have done since 2003 can, I believe, be seen as a progression of the musical and thematic directions that have always been present i their work . Although I believe that could have continued, my personal feeling is that a large part of it was lost in Gaslighter - something that I don't believe has to be permanent. I would agree with you that they are not at all likely to go back to the three Nashville albums - those involved pitching to a medium that rejected them, and that bridge was burnt long ago. Taking the Long Way, in my view, had some weaknesses, with production that I didn't feel was fully drawing on their strengths as a trio - but it also had considerable strengths, and, again I agree, it did show that it was possible to show the progression I've been discussing, without (as it were) throwing the baby out with the bath water. Certainly that direction could, hopefully, be built upon. That album was half-and-half co written by Gary Louris and Dan Wilson, both respected in the Alternative Roots sector, and the Chicks were helped musically by Mike Campbell and Benmont Tench - two members of Tom Petty's Heartbreakers, a Rock band that had enormous respect and influence in both main branches of the Country spectrum. In closing, I'd also like to mention Linda Perry (who collaborated with the Chicks in that era on one song, "Voice Inside My Head".) She is of interest in this discussion for showing that it is possible to transition in the opposite direction - from Pop to the American Roots scene, where she has gained considerable recognition as. Recently she collaborated with several of the women who arguably now operate on the "tightrope" that the Chicks once walked - pitching some of their work to the main record companies, while retaining an independent outlook. She collaborated with Brandi Carlile, Brandy Clark, Hillary Lindsey, Lori McKemnna and Hailey Whitters for a record encouraging people to vote in the recent Presidential election. The point is, I believe, that it doesn't have to be "either/or". You can retain your independence, while not sacrificing what have often been shown to be your musical strengths - and hopefully there will indeed be other work to come from the Chicks
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Post by erik on Dec 28, 2020 17:02:41 GMT -8
Quote by Bingo re. writers' contributions to Wide Open Spaces:
It's especially true with folks like J.D. Souther, Maria McKee, and Bonnie Raitt that they could draw more on, considering how much Taking The Long Way leaned towards the California country-rock stylings of those folks, plus elements of the Eagles and Poco, bands that did, on more than one occasion, draw from bluegrass influences. I've also always advocated for the Chicks to cover Neil Young's "Love Is A Rose" in the neo-bluegrass version that Linda Ronstadt did in 1975, since it would draw on each of their own strengths.
Re. other possibilities for future collaborators:
I think all of these possibilities are intriguing. What would help would be to have a producer in charge with a fairly long track record in knowing what the Chicks were really about. I don't thnk that's Jack Antanoff (even though they went to him this time around in part because of his connections to Taylor Swift); and while it may be tempting to say someone like a Shooter Jennings or a Dave Cobb, I would actually suggest John Boylan, because of his connections with Linda, the Eagles, and the whole nexus of the California country-rock scene (he produced Rick Nelson's 1970 comeback cover of Bob Dylan's "She Belongs To Me").
As MSNBC's Rachel Maddow is famous for saying, "Watch this space."
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Post by sthdvs2012 on Dec 29, 2020 23:57:20 GMT -8
I do not honestly think that there will be as big of a break this time around. A tour is eminent, yes. Time was lost during the pandemic, yes. But they are currently free agents and without a record label. Unless they have signed with a record company and it hasn’t been reported, they have said they have been “shopping around.” I don’t see ANY label signing them without requiring an album release within a reasonable amount of time. After signing, they will likely begin work on a project soon after. That’s one ray of hope lol
Also, wouldn’t be surprised if we got a live album from the Gaslighter tour.
While I understand that the Chicks haven’t ever had more than a mediocre promotional team, their rollout/promo for Gaslighter was among the worst I’ve ever seen. From the art direction all the way down to the social media presence, it was severely lackluster. All artists have different eras and some stack up better or worse than others. The Gaslighter era may be the worst. Maybe because we all had such high expectations? Because it’s so different than what any of us expected? I’m not sure. But they just don’t have the same fire for this record the way they did for any of the others. When asked on different podcasts which albums were their favorites or most proud of, NONE of them named Gaslighter. Which was quite surprising....considering they were promoting it.....
I don’t hate the album. I do like a lot of it! It just ranks 5th for me.
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Post by erik on Dec 30, 2020 7:11:35 GMT -8
Quote by sthdvs2012:
Certainly a fourteen-year break does tend to build a ton of expectations (even four years is a long time). It certainly wasn't what I think any of us expected from them.
It's quite easy to speculate as to why this album doesn't seem to engage them, or for that matter us; but I think it may strike the three of them as being much more personal than even what was on Taking The Long Way, and they may be very reluctant this time around to talk about it. I don't know if being unable to tour and promote it properly has anything to do with it, given Taylor was hobbled the same way with Folklore, and that album has sold ridiculously well, not to mention shown her to be something more than just a current "teen dream".
There's no real way of knowing for sure. Only time will tell, perhaps by them either touring or making another album once the pandemic abates.
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Post by Kent67b on Dec 31, 2020 9:28:06 GMT -8
I would love to see a new album this year before the next tour in the 2021-2022. I'm already thinking about where the concerts will be. They can always come play an acoustic set in my back yard.
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Post by oregonchickfan on Jan 1, 2021 9:34:35 GMT -8
I would love to see a new album this year before the next tour in the 2021-2022. I'm already thinking about where the concerts will be. They can always come play an acoustic set in my back yard. On Late Night with Seth Meyers, Martie said it would be another eighteen months before they tour, so 2022. They have said they want to make another record, so hopefully they have some quarantine inspiration to do that over the next year or so.
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Post by erik on Jan 5, 2021 16:32:12 GMT -8
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Post by sthdvs2012 on Jan 6, 2021 3:25:31 GMT -8
Nobody even watches these award shows anymore. Remember when the Grammys would get 25-35 million viewers every year? Same with the Oscars and Emmys. Now it’s just a bunch of celebrities using their speech time to make political statements lol. Most people just don’t care to watch overpaid entertainers be handed gold trophies anymore haha. I know I care nothing about it.
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Post by eaglemaster on Jan 6, 2021 4:56:56 GMT -8
It is interesting to read your statement above ^^, sthdvs2012. It seems to me that there are plenty of changes in people's behaviour and interests developing with the ongoing Corona crisis. I wonder where our main focus points will be going forward...
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